15: 6 Memoir Writing Tips from a Memoir Book Coach ft. Ally Berthiaume

Ally Berthiaume: 00:00:00

We have no guarantees in life. and time is certainly not one of them, you know, and I'm always like if you will regret not doing this, then do it , if you know that you're going to feel like some part of your life has been unfulfilled, because you didn't keep that promise to yourself, then don't wait on the magical mythical someday,

Holly Ostrout: 00:00:22

Welcome to the Book Coach Chronicles, a podcast for writers of books, people who want to be writers of books, And y'all in the back who've been thinking about it but don't yet consider yourself a writer. We chat about all things authorhood. From the creative process and making your writing life easy and enjoyable to actually getting your book out into the world and the power it has to change it.

I'm your host, Holly Ostrout, and together we're going to bring creativity, sustainability, and delight to writing your book. So let's make this year the season of your book.

Welcome back everybody today. I'm really excited to be with Ally Berthiaume.

Ally is an award winning author, international book coach and ghost writer and speaker. She holds an MFA in creative writing and is the founder of the right place, right time. Ally believes that books have the ability to heal and the more healed we are, the more healed our planet is. When she says, write the book that will light up your world and ours, she imagined the world where people are united. They dared to share the stories that have shaped them. And in that sharing, they've come to realize that we are more the same than we are different. Ally, I'm really excited to have you today.

Ally Berthiaume: 00:01:32

Thank you so much for having me.

Holly Ostrout: 00:01:34

Yeah. So we are both book coaches.

e tell the real truth. Their [: 00:02:00

Ally Berthiaume: 00:02:05

It probably dates back to two loves. I have always had two loves. I would say, stories and writing and then, people I've always I've always gravitated towards people.

I can talk to just about anybody. It's been a gift my entire life. And when I started to get. I would say pretty overt nudges from some adults in my life that writing wasn't a practical pursuit and that I should think of something that was more of a breadwinner. When it came to graduating from high school and going on to higher education, psychology.

Ended up being the other thing that I chose, because psychology was all about people and what makes people tick and I found that I had a natural knack for that. I'd always been like the friend that, you know, other people would come to for advice and support and so had this natural kind of.

Ability to lend an ear and listen, and to be non judging. And I also was one of those kids who was such an overachiever and so stressed out about stuff that I ended up in therapy. You know, like 16 and, recognize the power of psychology, mental health, counseling, all those things at a very young age.

And so, when I went on to get my degrees, I got my degrees in psychology and creative writing. And when I went on to get my master's, I decided that memoir was my genre because it felt like that was the way to, focus on people's stories. And you know why certain things happen to people or what the meaning was of certain things that happened to people.

It had like a, an undertone of psychology without it being like a self help book, or, you know, a psych textbook, I guess, and it was also a really strong outlet for myself to process my own stories and my own narratives, and to really understand what I had been through and then find a artistic way to talk about those life events and those critical life experiences.

So flash forward to however many years later when I went out on my own and, evolved into a book coach and a ghost writer. Memoir wasn't a real natural avenue to pursue because of that education, but also because of that love of people, their stories and some of the work that I had done in mental health while I was pursuing an undergraduate degree, was in was a community mental health, rape crisis, domestic violence, working with the elderly and assisted living centers and every single role there.

It was really at the end of the day about showing up to listen to people, share their story. What they had to say and to be seen and to be validated in that truth, whatever it was, whether, it was 100 percent accurate or not, you know, because some people had delusional disorders, these things were not real.

But they were real enough to them and you could see it in their eyes, how true it was to them and to bear witness to that and to hold space for that was. There was something sacred about it and, something beautiful. And so, I bring a lot of that same, energy or, the way that I worked with people in those settings.

I bring the same stuff into my work with authors on their memoirs. And it's just this really beautiful, natural kind of fit for me, blending the words and the people's stories kind of all together.

Holly Ostrout: 00:05:29

The way you talk about that sounds so relaxing, almost. And I know that that may sound strange because especially with your background to helping people with trauma and, memoir in general, often is a very vulnerable thing to write for people and can bring up trauma that people have and it can be a scary process to put your story out there and to say things that maybe you have not said before.

I love that you have this background in psychology. Do you apply that to the way you work with your authors to help them process the things that they are writing?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:06:04

I do while I don't know that they always are aware that that's what I'm doing. You know, I'm not like, okay, time out, we're not going to take a psych break. But I do employ, you know, Reframing, is a common thing that I do, right? And this is a principle that you would learn in like a counseling program.

So somebody says something to you, you replay it back to them, in a reframe to make sure that you've understood correctly what it is that they've said and in doing that, they really feel that you've truly understood and heard what it is that they're saying, right? Open ended questions while that seems like.

Not psychological. You get more from people when you ask an open ended question for them to explore their answer through talking out loud than if you ask something that requires a yes or no kind of response. Being able to see somebody's affect. So, you know, we're in a zoom call right now, right?

I can, I can look at you. I can see the way that your eyebrows might move or the way that you might curve your lips or, start to twitch or, you know, whatever it is. So visual cues can also allow me to kind of figure out if somebody needs a break, if something is troubling them, if something else is coming up, but they're not saying it out loud.

There are a lot of things that I leverage in my work with my clients, to make them feel safe and heard and also to allow grace for we're having a tough moment and that is okay. Let's cry. Let's take a break and get the tissues. Let's take deep breaths. Let's close our eyes and do a visualization.

Between either just listening skills to try to get the story out of them so that we can work with it, or the self care and some things that we can put in place to make them feel like they have tools to handle, things that can be triggering and hard to discuss. All of those things come into play in the work that I do.

Holly Ostrout: 00:07:58

So when you are working with people writing memoir, and when you're ghostwriting for people with memoir, do you do that through like a series of interviews with them over zoom so that you can get these nuances and really understand their story? How does that process work?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:08:13

Yeah, ghostwriting is really interesting, because of the two different aspects of having to kind of be like an investigative reporter in some ways, like having to ask a ton of questions, questions that you don't even realize that you need to ask until you start to do the writing. So there is a lot of interviewing and asking stuff.

And sometimes I do that through zoom a and calls. Sometimes I do that through Voxer or WhatsApp. Two apps that I really, really love because it allows us to keep the conversation going in between calls. And then as I'm digging in and I'm actually writing the manuscript and I realize that I need more details, I can send a quick.

Voice note and say, hey, when you have a moment, could you also give me answers to these new ten questions that I've come up with? Because now that I'm in the document, I'm realizing all the things that I didn't think to ask when we were on the call the last time. So the, the kind of investigative kind of Q and A portion of things is really interesting.

And then the other part of ghost reading that's really interesting is the I'm going to call it channeling. To attempt to almost assume the responsibility of the person in the journey. So, using a manuscript that I'm working on currently, you know, to put myself in the room and to pretend to be the seven year old who had the thing happened to them and to all of a sudden have to be looking through the eyes of a seven year old.

That's not me that I have. But I have to kind of like, get into the mindset of my client and say, okay, what might I. Have been thinking or doing in this moment based on what I know about them, and then making some assumptions about what they might have been like at seven, right, to try to get it to be as realistic as possible on the page, and then verify those details with the client.

Holly Ostrout: 00:09:59

Memoir is a mix of creative writing and you You'll have to tell a story with a memoir. So how often do you find that there is a need to maybe editorialize, it's not the right word, but to spice things up for a person's story or change things around or change the timeline?

How do you work to get somebody's story into a story?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:10:22

Oh, man, that's a great question. And I don't know that I have a short answer. So any project that I start, either as a book coach or a ghost writer, I begin with a pretty deep and specific outlining and conceptualizing process. And a lot of that is so that when we go to sit down to write, we have a blueprint or a guide to kind of work from that is paying attention to the common story arc, how the pacing of the story is going to unravel.

really with just getting the [: 00:11:00

So e every, like, snapshot, if you will, right, a lot of times our critical life moments and memories come in these, bursts. You remember like the color of that sweater or I don't remember what time it was, but I remember that one thing that that person said, you know, so it's getting all of those individual pieces and parts onto, I usually use post it notes, you know, any memory, any feeling, any theme, any thought, all the stuff onto post it notes, and then we basically move that stuff around like a puzzle.

Trying to make sense of it, putting it into a particular order, maybe grouping things by common threads or themes. Then we kind of figure out, okay, what, what does the story want to be? Where does it want to take us? Where does it want to go? And from there, we can kind of make some decisions.

Like, do we think we want to tell this linearly, you know, in a chronological order? Do we think that we want to do something different and start at one moment and then go back in time? So we decide, after we see kind of what we're dealing with, we start to decide, how might this look structurally?

On the page, how might we be creative with, the parts and pieces that we're dealing with? I think in terms of like, dramatizing or editorializing certain pieces has to do with how much we already have to work with. Some people's memories are more robust than others, and even then memory can be fallible, right?

So it's being careful and intentional with the details, what can we verify, what can we not, what can we assume is as accurate, to the truth as we can get it to be from an essence, like, you know, the essence of truth versus like capital T truth. And so there's lots of different nuances to have to kind of, , wade through, as you're crafting the manuscript.

Holly Ostrout: 00:13:06

One of the things that's always stood out to me about Memoir is that it does definitely follow a story structure, just like a novel would, and , I've never written a memoir, so it's always fascinated me of how the author and their coach goes into structuring things so that it tells that story.

And with your background in psychology, I'm sure that you would know all about how the memory is fallible. , and the most important thing is to just get at that essence of truth, like you said, while still telling the story that needs to be told.

So, earlier you mentioned that Your family kind of reminded you when you were younger that writing wasn't a practical pursuit.

I also got this reminder when I was in high school and I was going to go into art school and ended up going into business school instead. And then after business school, when I applied for and got accepted into an MBA program, I stopped and thought, Oh my gosh, I am in the wrong program. And I switched finally to a publishing program for grad school instead.

So I finally got to come back to what I had originally wanted to do was just be more creative.

How have you, found that your clients approach writing? Were any of them also discouraged from creative pursuits before they created their career path or started their businesses and then decided that they had to come back and let this out, this creative pursuit out, or was it something that came to them later in life?

Or is that something that, you know?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:14:35

It's so funny that you say that you start, you know, you started. To go 1 direction with the masters and then and then changed because in truth, my own experience is that I started a marriage and family therapy degree as my masters and then after a year changed because I was like, this is not this is not for me. In terms of.

seeing clients and where are they falling on like, you know, their pursuits. I tend to see a lot of people who have dampened some earlier interest or passion for any number of reasons. And it might not even have anything to do with their book, but they, they might've really loved singing earlier in their life.

But because it wasn't practical or because they felt like they. Needed to focus on this degree or that job or whatever, like, you know, singing while it brought them joy. Wasn't something that they prioritized. So they let it kind of fall by the wayside. I hear a lot, especially objections, like when people are not sure they want to move forward with the book.

I hear a lot of things like, when I retire, or, someday when I have more time, and I feel like these are. Old stories that are behind those statements, stories like this creative pursuit, such as writing a book, isn't priority right now over paying the bills or isn't priority right now over the other thing that's my main focus, right? Like, even with a creative entrepreneur, let's say your main thing is photography and that's what's keeping the lights on, right? It would be easy to say photography is the bread and butter and photography is the thing that pays my bills and so therefore writing a book happens some other magical time. Where I have less on my plate and you know more attention to this particular project so, I think that's kind of how it shows up and it creeps up is like still kind of debating, with yourself, like, the worthiness of a particular pursuit, because culturally we dampen or we diminish, the relevancy or significance or, , you know, return on investment of, of creative pursuits. And I think those of us who are creative and eventually end up in creative roles and jobs, on the one hand, it's beautiful that we ended up there. On the other hand, I think we still have a tendency that to put our own creativity on hold because we're focusing our creative pursuits on the people that we're trying to serve.

Holly Ostrout: 00:17:19

And having less on your plate never happens, as we all know, there's always something that pops up.

So if somebody said to you today, I'll do this when I retire, what would you say to them?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:17:31

I'm usually pretty, , blunt and straightforward. And I'm like, well, but what happens if that doesn't happen?

What happens if you don't retire? What happens if you don't make it to retirement? What happens if you get hit by a bus tomorrow? We have no guarantees in life. And time is certainly not one of them, and I'm always like, if you will regret not doing this, then do it like, if you know that you're going to feel like some part of your life has been unfulfilled.

Because you didn't keep that promise to yourself, then don't wait on the magical mythical someday, however many years from now, especially because at that point, your memory is going to be even less sharp to capture the details that you would need, to tell your story of something that might have happened when you were four or five or, you know, whatever age it was, so, seize the day is really, is really what I would say.

Holly Ostrout: 00:18:28

Going after our dreams while we still can is really important. Are there any dreams that you've actualized in your own life that you'd like to share?

Hey friends, I hope you're enjoying the show. If you're ready to write your book and you're looking for tools, resources, or a little extra support, you can find all of that at booksandalchemy.com where you can grab my free writing ritual creator. Join one of my super special memberships or a schedule a chat to talk about book coaching.

Again, it's all at booksandalchemy.com. Oh, and be sure to subscribe to the podcast, like go ahead and do it now. And now back to the show.

Ally Berthiaume: 00:19:07

Honestly, this business and my first book, are 100 percent actualizations of a dream.

I was five years old when I knew in my gut and in my soul that, I was going to be a writer. That was it. Like, that was who I was at my core. It was all well and good until, graduation was approaching. And then I wasn't the cute girl with the dream anymore. It was like, no, like we got to prepare her to be like a real, law abiding contributing citizen of the world.

So we got to like knock some sense into her about these dreams of being a writer. And, I think t here was a, it was a grand miscommunication because they were really thinking that that meant, being broke and living in an apartment with no electricity or something. While, I was attempting to write the great American novel and I wasn't really sure that it meant that I just knew that I needed to write and honestly, that could have been any number of things that could have been as a journalist could have been as somebody in marketing.

I mean, it could have been any number of things, even though we all had this very closed idea of what being a writer was going to be and, I got the B. A. In writing. I think that the M. F. A. In writing. I felt like I kept like inching my way getting closer. First job out of college, not a writing thing.

But then I found a job at a publishing company and it was a glorious three years. Working in the marketing department than the editorial department. And I was like, Oh, I finally landed. I made it. And then that company got acquired and we all got let go. And that just happened to be in time with my first pregnancy.

So I was getting laid off at. 10 months pregnant and, trying to figure out where I go from there. Cause it was like the only gig in town, the only like publishing company that had benefits and a good pay, like all those things. And it was another number of years after that, before I found myself on the entrepreneurial path.

But getting onto the entrepreneurial path originally as a content writer and copywriter, that was like. I did it. I said, since I was five, I was going to be a writer and now this is what I do every day for myself and for others, nine to five or whatever hours I keep I have done it. I am making my passion, my living.

w it felt and, that was about: 2000

had manifested into the physical form of a book. I felt like Anne of Green Gables when her book arrives in the mail and she tears it open and she's got to go show Gilbert. And it was a beautiful. It was a beautiful, beautiful, um, just honoring of the younger version of myself who really truly believed despite everybody else's belief that's what I was called to do.

n that first book came out in: 2020

Holly Ostrout: 00:22:33

So you mentioned , your pregnancy, is this something that you're going to share with your children now, this desire to be entrepreneurial and to go for it?

Or, or do you think that when they hit that college years, you might say, no get the business degree instead?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:22:48

It's funny, you know, already my son's going to be eight in November, and interestingly enough, he was turning five the same year that the book came out, so he was literally turning the same age that I was when I knew I wanted to be a writer. And, as soon as he saw the book on my desk, he was like, Oh my gosh, mommy, I want one.

Like, I want one just like this. But of course he had no frame of reference for how that book came to be, and so then we ended up in this hilarious, meltdown moment where he just really wanted the book right now.

And I was like trying to explain to him that we couldn't just whip up a book with his face on it, out of thin air, printed on the home computer. But in that moment I remembered feeling like, how amazing it is to be able to say to him, When you grow up, if this is what you want, then this is what you can do rather than say to him, well, this isn't actually all that practical and you should, you should try something else.

Right. And now he's eight and he has this kind of like vague reference for like college because we drive by a couple on our way to school and he'll say, I'm going to go there when I get older, and I find myself saying to him, I said, maybe, or maybe you'll go to trade school. Or maybe you'll take some time off or maybe something else, like offering up the opportunities and the options rather than trying to pigeonhole him into anything that I felt I was like, kind of like required to head in one particular direction.

And, of course, I grew up in a very different time. The options, I guess, might have been more narrow, or the way that our parents saw the options were different than generations. Now we're parenting, right? There's all kinds of cultural things that we could debate here. But my big thing for him is just true to yourself.

Because I felt like I would have been happier earlier. If I had stayed true to myself, rather than let the voices in, and he's got a curious and kind of creative soul. I can see that already. So I want him to have all the options available to him. And now that he recognizes d that I run my own business and that I'm my own boss, there is, there is something.

About that to him. That's very exciting. You know, he sees his stepdad and his dad, I think, as like working for other people. And then he sees me and he's he calls me the big boss because I run my own company. I don't have to speak to anybody else. You know, I'm calling all the shots. So, I think that.

Without me having to force any particular direction down his throat, he has, three very active adults in his life, that are each doing it a little bit differently, inside different fields, and so he kind of gets to see all the options.

Holly Ostrout [: 00:25:41

My daughter is five years old, and I tell her the same thing.

She currently says that when she grows up, she's going to be a kitty cat girl, and I'm fully supporting this dream. I, um, it's so important to allow them to stay true to themselves and, and to also remember that we can stay true to ourselves growing up in different times, as you said, and there were different resources available, and I guess we could say fewer resources available because Internet was just, when I was born, there was really no Internet, I guess.

The Department of Defense still had some proto internet then, but there was no internet for the rest of us when I was born, and not until I was, I don't know, about ten. So, we, we had different resources, and there were fewer options for making a living doing something unique and creative then, I think, than there are now.

And that's something that we should all remember as creative women. Whatever we're working on, you can probably make a living with it now. There's... I mean, people making a living just taking pictures of themselves traveling to different places that shows you you can do basically anything you want these days.

You mentioned your book, your memoir. Tell us about that.

Ally Berthiaume: 00:26:52

So, my memoir is Dear Universe, I Get It Now, Letters on the Art and Journey of Being Brave and Being Me, and it's an epistolary memoir. So, it's literally a book of letters to The universe, exactly how it sounds higher power. And it basically tracks, all of the lessons I believe I've learned through some of my life's kind of either biggest mistakes or, most captivating memories and some not always beautiful memories.

Some of them are painful and hard. But I truly believe that. The universe puts in front of us a variety of people in situations to teach us something that we need to know. And all of those lessons are actually a part of kind of a divine path that the universe has in place for us if we are willing and open to experiencing it and following it.

And so. My book is really tracking my path to eventually become the writer that I am, but at the same time is really an invitation for the reader to be thinking about their own life journey, to figure out where were they given the cues, where were they given the signs of something that they should have been paying attention to?

Did they miss them? Did they adhere to them? Are they truly living their life authentically, uh, to them? And so at the end of each letter, there's a series of questions for the reader to kind of pursue and reflect on to try to kind of tie, what I'm discussing in the book to their own journey.

It's a beautiful, magical little book. Because every time somebody picks it up, they end up getting in touch and they say, this book found me right when I needed it. And I couldn't have planned that. That is just the magic that is this memoir.

Holly Ostrout: 00:28:39

You're writing about signs from the universe and there you go.

You're giving signs from the universe to other people with your book. That's something that really aligns and resonates with me. So I love that, that you wrote that.

When you published your book, did you choose to go for traditional publishing or did you choose to go for indie publishing?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:28:56

So for Dear Universe, I chose indie publishing, partially because, originally when I developed the idea for the book, I wanted it to be something I could use for my business. I wanted a book to my own name so that when I was like promoting myself as a book coach and a ghost writer, I wasn't the book coach and the ghostwriter without their own book.

I felt like that was a little bit disingenuous and there were things for me to learn, about publishing that, you know, in practice, I knew a lot about publishing from my, my education, from being The president of a nonprofit organization here in Vermont that was all dedicated to writing and we had umpteen seminars and workshops that were all about the ins and outs of publishing.

So I wasn't concerned about what I knew, but I hadn't actually gone through the process myself. I wasn't willing to wait, to see if I would get an agent and then if the agent would, , shop the manuscript and if a publisher would be interested. That just felt like way too much time, to wait when I knew that I had something special that I wanted to put out into the world.

I knew what it could do for my business and how it could help. I knew that I was capable of doing it to some extent on my own or finding the right people to help me. So I kind of just took the reins and said, this first one, it's not going that way. Like, I'm going to do independent publishing. I'll find my cover designer.

I'll find my editors. I knew enough about who I needed, and who to find that I just went that route, worked with a independent press here in Vermont, worked with a number of different contractors on the rest and, and brought the book into the world that way.

Holly Ostrout: 00:30:35

Do you also help your clients with publishing?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:30:38

So I am a completely hands on, like, start to finish kind of coach and ghostwriter, meaning that people often start to work with me from conception stage, they don't have anything written, they don't have anything documented, they have no idea where they're going, but they have a really strong idea.

And a really strong calling and they want to pursue it all the way to, helping them hand that manuscript over to a press. And so in that space between from conception to full manuscript, there's a number of things from the publishing front that I do. One being education, I kind of give them the publishing 101.

So I explained the different avenues, the disadvantages and advantages. What they all mean, how they kind of each operate. And then what we do from there is we say, okay, now that we know how the publishing landscape operates. What are your mission? What are your visions? What are your values?

What are your goals? What's your budget? What's your timeline? We look at all of those different things. And then we say, okay, based on all of that, these avenues to publication make the most sense, right? And we rule out the ones that don't match with all of those things. And then from there, I say, okay, now that we've narrowed it down to these two paths or one path or whatever it is, here's who I know, like, and trust.

That I've already met, that I believe in, and I will introduce you to them and we'll see if they're a good fit. And to some extent I'll even sit sometimes on calls between the client and the publisher and facilitate the conversation. Because I'm the mutual person. I know both of them, they don't know each other.

And because a lot of the people that I work with tend to, have never written a book before, it's their first time. They aren't going to be able to show up to a conversation asking what they need to ask. Because they don't know what questions they should be covering. So, I really try to facilitate and mediate as much as possible so that my client feels like they're moving on to somebody that I know, like, trust, they know, like, trust.

And they're going to be given that same kind of special attention that I've given them the whole time. So that they don't feel jarred when they've gone from a really high touch experience to being in the hands of somebody else.

Holly Ostrout: 00:32:54

That's a lovely process. I'm sure your clients really appreciate it.

What would you say to any potential memoirist? Who want to use the season to get in the flow and, and maybe start preparing to write their memoir. What would you say to them?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:33:11

So if I was to start with flow, getting into the, getting into the flow, while this seems probably antithetical to flow, I would say developing a practice , can be helpful, right? Like as much as we all think that we want freedom, right? No restrictions, no constraints. That can also actually be challenging, because there's no parameters. , so we can think like, okay, we've done something with the project. We're ready for it to leave the nest or whatever.

But if we don't actually set up some time, some consistency, some accountability. Around working on getting those things out there into the world, like, it probably won't happen. So, I really feel like, to, to bring your, your dreams, whether that's a book or anything else, to fruition, you need to have some consistency and commitment, to doing it.

And setting aside some time and really making it a priority, and whatever that looks like. I think the biggest thing that I like to talk to people about, because a, a lot of the times when I'm talking to, to writers about developing a practice, they say, well, I, I'm not gonna get up at 5:00 AM.

And write a thousand words and I'm like, why did you think that you needed to get up at 5 a. m. and write a thousand words? Right? Well, isn't that what all the greats do? Isn't that what the famous people do? Like they, they have these like routines where like, they don't do anything else until they write X number of words a day or whatever.

And I'm always like, no, it's not about that. Forget the greats. You're not the greats, right? You're you and you could be great at some point, but you're only going to get there if you have a consistent practice. So what does that look like for you? What's realistic? When do you work best? What pockets of time during the week make the most sense for you?

Do you prefer a short block of time to concentrate or do you like a longer block of time? When can you fit in a longer block of time and how frequently, it's really about self awareness and knowing you, knowing your schedule, knowing what's realistic, and setting up something that feels like you can actually be successful at it.

So that you can get into a rhythm and then get into a flow of, of actually producing something. Or sending it out there, right? Like let's say it's already produced. You still need the time and energy and commitment to actually sending it out into the world, with some sort of effort and, intention.

So that would be my advice for flow season is, is create a schedule that feels good for you, realistic and allows you to create or implement whatever it is, wherever you're at in your journey, allows you to do that.

Holly Ostrout: 00:35:56

I 100 percent agree with that. I agree with it so much that, a freebie I give out to people who visit my website is a writing ritual tracker because it is so important to find the, the different times, places, environments, , other external factors that affect how you're writing and even the work you do in your business goes that you cannot figure out without tracking for at least a little while. And if you track long enough, you can start to see the patterns and create rituals around that that make this process feel more like a flow. , I don't believe that everybody has to get up at 5 a. m. either, although, funnily enough, I am reading Miracle Morning right now.

I'm only, what, 11 years late, but I also put off reading the book because I didn't want to wake up at 5 a. m. But I've reached that point where I'm like, maybe I should try to at least see, because for me, my old practice of writing in the evening just wasn't working anymore. I just didn't have the energy anymore.

I didn't have the mental energy anymore after having a kid and, I've not been able to regain that practice as effectively as I was able to do it before I had her. So, that is also to say that things change with your life. Whatever your practice is right now, May not be your practice forever.

Ally Berthiaume: 00:37:15

Well, and, to add to that, I find that your practice with one book, let's say you're going to write multiple books, your practice with one book won't be the same as it will be with the next one.

The way that I wrote Dear Universe was very different because of where I was at in my life and my capacity and my bandwidth, than this next one that I've been trying to bring out to the world. I still haven't quite figured out what my new practice is that works. Because so many things.

ave shifted and evolved since: 2020

So find something that works for now and work it until it stops working and then find the next thing that works.

Holly Ostrout: 00:38:10

So, if anybody here has been listening, , to our conversation and feels like they want to be your next client or they want to learn more about you, where can everybody find you online?

Ally Berthiaume: 00:38:19

So, the kind of place to go would be my website because then you can get to all the other places from there. And so that's the writeplacerighttime.com. The first right is W R I T E and the second one is R I G H T. So the write place, right time. com.

Holly Ostrout: 00:38:36

I'll put that in the show notes too. Well, it's been really lovely having this conversation with you, Ally, thank you so much.

Ally Berthiaume: 00:38:44

You're so welcome, Holly. I'm so glad that we got a chance to talk.

Holly Ostrout: 00:38:47

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