13. Tools Neurodiverse Authors Can Use to Make Creative Work Easier ft. Jack Ori

[: 00:00:00

Welcome to the dream season, a podcast for entrepreneurs, writers, and creatives of all kinds, looking to finally find some balance in your life. So you can get back to enjoying the things you love and even the things you don't love, but have to do anyway. I'm your host, Holly Ostara, and together we're going to bring delight, inspiration, and sustainability to your creative flow one season at a time. 


So let's make this the season of your dreams. 


Okay, so today we're going to talk to Jack Orrey. Jack Orrey is an author. He wrote his first story when he was just six years old, using an old typewriter his grandmother gave to him. 


h, which he released in April: 2020

These are big topics Jack. Yeah definitely. Can you tell us a little bit about your history and how, you came to be a social worker and, what inspired you to write this story?

[: 00:01:57

Sure. So,, I've been writing since I was six years old. I also grew up transgender and closeted because I grew up in the 80s and 90s when people didn't talk about things like being transgender, so I didn't know there was a word for what I was. 


And so as a result, as a kid, I felt very invisible. I didn't really know how to explain it because I assumed that the adults thought that I was said I was a girl. So I must be something must be wrong with me that I didn't seem to be able to remember it. Then as socially that was also difficult because I mostly played with boys, but about around 4th grade boys don't want to play with quote unquote girls. 


So. Um, I, yeah, yeah. So I was like, I lost all my friends because most of them were like, Oh, you're a girl stay away from me. And then I wasn't really like, didn't really have anything in common with most of the girls. So I didn't really make a lot of friends and that kind of thing. And so as I got older, I started having mental health issues. 


I started having depression and that sort of thing. Difficulty making friends. I'm also autistic, which I was diagnosed with until about 20 years or so. Then I didn't get any kind of support with social skills or anything like that. So then by the time I had left high school, started going to college, I tended to gravitate towards relationships that were abusive because, they were, first of all, with men who were more like women, so it was like, I was with these closeted feminine men who probably would not even identify as that, you know, they would say things like people treat me like a woman or I feel like a woman and I had a close person that I was with who had a drug problem and when he was high, he would put on women's clothes. 


And so it's kind of like the. Guy in the girl's body kind of was gravitating towards these men who were like more feminine and It just like led to some bad situations or some traumatic situations. Especially, I had my friend who had the drug problem Overdosed and died like a couple of days after I moved out. 


I transitioned, which was in: 2012

So when I wrote Reinventing Hannah, I began writing just with the idea of, a girl who survives an experience like this. And I didn't know much more about it, the story kind of developed as I wrote it, but as I was reading other books, because it's a fairly common theme in young adult literature, like there are several books that are like standard for the genre, and they're good books, so I'm not like trying to put anyone else down, but a lot of the most popular ones or most well known ones have the formula of girl is sexually assaulted, doesn't tell anyone, is depressed and self destructive for 300 pages until when it feels better in the end. 


And I was like, that was not the story I wanted to tell. I wanted to tell a story of the person who learns to speak out and what happens after the end of these books, because I was like, okay. So, She's told people what happens next, you know, so I wanted to write a different kind of story and Reinventing Hannah ended up being about a girl who was so quiet her friends called her mouse and then this happens to her and then she gradually becomes more vocal and at first she does do the whole not telling anyone thing and then she decides to tell her best friend and then she takes it from there and her friend accidentally betrays her secret because her friend goes and yells at her other friend for taking her to the party where it happened and so then like people overhear and... 


So she has to deal with people knowing, and she has to decide who she is, and the pressure from her friends to go back to being quiet Hannah, who doesn't make any waves, as opposed to who she wants to be. And so, the story's really about transformation, and it's about empowerment, and about how telling her story doesn't change what happened to her, but it fixes the issue of feeling so powerful. 


Or at least because she can at least do that, she can help other people, and she ends up becoming an advocate for survivors, and is miles away from who she was. At the beginning, and I wanted to tell that story so I'm pretty pleased with how it came out.

[: 00:06:22

That's really great. So I also grew up in the 80s and 90s and I don't remember knowing the word transgender back then either. When I was growing up so we kids today and younger people today definitely have a lot more resources but it's so new and it sounds like stories like this can be helpful to kids who may be feeling like, their body doesn't quite match or something like that. 


Do you want to speak to that? 


[: 00:06:50

Yeah, definitely. So, I think, too, most of my stories, I am writing something now that has a non binary protagonist, but my stories are not specifically about trans people, but I think the journey is the same, even though it's different. Like, for me as a trans person, it definitely, there is that sense of, this is not who I am. 


People keep telling me I'm a certain way, but I think that is something that's relatable to everybody because I think everybody whether you're cisgender or transgender has had that moment where you're like, the way people see me is not the way I want to be or not the way I really am. And I have to make some change here. 


It just happens for trans person the changes extensive because it involves figuring out how you're going to express your gender, who you're going to tell if you're going to go on medication or not, or if you're going to have surgery or not, all those things. But I definitely think there's this areas of commonality, and even if the gender thing, I think there's even areas of commonality, I've been watching on Netflix, Anne with an E, which is based on Anne of Green Gables, and they did this whole part where she had to cut her hair very short because she had dyed it, and people were making fun of her because they said she looked like a boy, and I was like, this is very similar, only like reverse to how I felt. 


Because she was. Saying, like, people don't see me as a girl, they're treating me like I'm a boy because of my hair, and it was uncomfortable, it was kind of like, as a trans person I can identify with that, and I'm sure there are many cis people who could also identify with, I'm female or I'm male, but people expect me to be a certain way, and I think that's something everyone deals with in our society. 


[: 00:08:24

Mm hmm. Society puts a lot of expectations on all of us. And, not all of them for the good. 


[: 00:08:30

Yeah. 


[: 00:08:30

And you said that you are also autistic and, so you're navigating authorhood as a neurodiverse author. So could you tell me a little bit more about that? And maybe some tools that you use to work better as a neurodiverse author.




[: 00:08:43

Sure. Yeah, so the big difference, I think, is that a lot of writing advice is geared towards neurotypical people. Like, one of the things I say all the time is the idea of writing every day does not really work for a lot of neurodiverse people. 


Some it does, but for most people, it doesn't. And so. One of the things that I like to teach people is that that kind of advice, if you are neurodiverse, is like trying to run Windows software on a Mac. It isn't going to work. So, instead, some things I teach is, I use tools like one of my favorite ones is the Pomodoro, which, it's a method where you set a timer for 25 minutes. 


You work for that 25 minutes and you don't get distracted for that 25 minutes. If somebody notifies you on Facebook, you wait till the timer rings before you look at it or whatever. Then after 25 minutes, you take a five minute break to do whatever you want and then go back to it. And you repeat that cycle three or four times. 


Then you take a longer break and there are apps you can use to do this. I have one called forest, which is kind of fun because it's like every 25 minutes that you complete like plants, a tree, um, and it'll be like, don't close the app before you're finished or your, or your plant is going to die, which, you know, 


[: 00:09:52

Oh, it's like a new Tamagotchi. 


[: 00:09:57

But you don't even need to use an app. You can just take the timer on your phone, set it for 25 minutes. And I find that's really helpful because first of all, it allows for those short bursts without either getting so much into the project that you don't do anything else or being like, I hate this. 


I don't want to do this after five minutes. I'm going to quit and go on Facebook. So that's a really helpful tool and technique. When I, plan my writing, I don't plan everyday writing time because my life doesn't always work that way. So instead what I do is there are certain blocks of time on my calendar that are writing time. 


So, like, say, for example, Thursday from 2 to 4 is writing time. The reason that's helpful for me as a neurodiverse person is because, If I didn't have that, and I didn't write on Tuesday or Wednesday, I'd be panicking and be like, Oh my God, I missed two days of writing. How is this ever gonna get done? 


Am I ever gonna get it done? And that kind of thing, but if I know that on Thursday I have time to dedicate to it, if I didn't write today, that's okay, because I know that it's scheduled. It's going to happen. And so, um, that's really helpful. Google Calendar or whatever calendar app you want to use. 


I find in general really helpful because it's easier. If you have some sort of schedule rather than, I just want to make sure that I'm writing every day because you can very easily get caught up in writing all day if it's going well and not getting anything else done. Or you can be like, I have other stuff to do, I don't know what to do first and get stuck. 


But if you know that on Monday morning, you're going to do your some sort of paid work and on Tuesday afternoon. You're going to be writing or whatever the case is. That's really helpful. And it's also really helpful if your calendar syncs to your phone, because that way you'll get these reminders. 


Like, I got a reminder for this podcast thing 10 minutes, you know, so you don't get distracted and forget to do something that you were planning on doing. And then you want to get to the end of the day and be like, I can't remember what I did. I know I did something, but it wasn't what I planned to do. 


You don't want that. And I've been there. Yeah, that happens a lot. And then the other thing that's really helpful is in addition to a to do list, you can do kind of a done list at the end of the day where you're like, looking at it and like, this is what I did today. Yay me, I got all this done because sometimes you can feel like you didn't get anything done, but actually you got a lot done. 


[: 00:12:17

I do a done list too, and it's really satisfying to look at at the end of the day. I kind of, I have uh, three things I accomplished, where I have to fill that out each day, and then also three things I was grateful for that day, and I find that that helps me a lot.




[: 00:12:30

I love that. 


Yeah, gratitude is so important too.




[: 00:12:33

It is. It is. I find that when I skip gratitude, that the next day I just, is not as productive. Or it feels harder.




[: 00:12:41

Yeah. Yeah, it definitely feels harder. And especially with writing, it's important to keep the positivity going because there are times where you can be like, I'm getting rejections all over the place. 


If you're like, trying to submit for traditionally, Or if you're, even if you're self published, you're like, okay, I published this book, I did all the marketing that I thought I should do, and two people bought it. That can be kind of depressing. It that gratitude and be like, yay, I got a sale today.

[: 00:13:14

Yeah. 


[: 00:13:15

You know, that, that can be helpful. So I think that's also really important. Some other things that I use. Is an app blocker on my phone, so if that's the day where I know I'm feeling distracted, I can turn that on, and if I turn that on, I can tell it, don't, don't let me see Facebook, or don't let me, or whatever, or I might block, like, some game app that I keep playing a game instead of working. 


And that way, I have to do what I plan to do, because... If you try to open it, it'll just give you a message saying, sorry, this app is blocked. Get back to what you were, or you know.

[: 00:13:51

That's a good reminder. And it takes that, that willpower aspect out of trying to focus. Because it's not an option anymore. 


You just have to do it. There's nothing else to do. 


[: 00:14:01

Yeah. And when I first started doing it, it also showed, makes you really aware of how much time you waste. Because like, when I first started doing it, the first day, like literally every five minutes I would try to get on Facebook and it would be like, no. 


And it really makes you realize, wow, look how often I stop and take a break. And it's the kind of thing where you have to kind of balance it because sometimes, there are things I have to do on Facebook, right? I have to respond to people who are in my Facebook group, or I have to put up a post about something related to writing on my main page. 


But... Having an app like this really makes it intentional so that you sit down, when you have social media time that's blocked off and not, I'm supposed to be writing, but it's not going well. I think I'll go scroll Facebook.

[: 00:14:49

I'm in a book club, and actually right now we're reading a book on, well, it's how to overcome emotional eating, which is not related, but the way it approaches it is that it's an addiction, and it's brought up other things for me than this, and, one of those things is that we've got so many addictions and we don't realize it. 


Because it's not a drug addiction or an alcohol addiction, but scrolling through Facebook, you know, I think it has become an addiction for me. And since we started reading this book, I've started to think about, does this actually bring me pleasure or am I just doing it because my brain is associating, X activity with then go scroll Facebook or then go scroll Instagram or something like that. 


And it's making me rethink things and also making me really angry about all the social media companies trying to get us addicted to their stupid websites. 


[: 00:15:38

Right. Especially because they try to sell outrage. So like a lot of times, you have to be really careful with social media, like who you follow and who you're seeing. 


Because if you go on social media and you see a bunch of people ranting about politics or ranting about whatever, or ranting about what's happening in their lives, that's going to bring you down too, because you're like, Oh my God, everybody's so in a bad situation. And it's contagious. 


[: 00:16:05

It is. 


And that really affects your mindset, too, as an author and a creative in general. And, if you're constantly seeing these things that bring you down, for me personally, it just sinks my creativity. How do you find it affects you? 


[: 00:16:19

I find that I've had to be really careful, too. A lot of times, if I'm on Facebook or whatever social media, and I see something that someone says that annoys me, I have to think very carefully about, do I even want to get into this conversation? 


Because I know that they're going to respond back, and I'm either going to be like, oh my god, they responded. I'm very anxious about that. About what they say, if they're going to be bullying me, or they're going to answer and I'm going to be like, I don't feel like it anymore and just ignore them. And then in either case, if that's going to be my reaction that I want to avoid seeing what they have to say in response, what's the point of responding? 


So, I always think very carefully. A lot of times I'll start to respond to something and I'll be like, no, nevermind. This is not worth my time. Yeah. I have more important things to think about. So I think it's important to set those boundaries, and it's all, and it is important to use features like hiding certain accounts, like if you still want to be connected with somebody, but they say things that irritate you, being like, okay, I'm going to hide you for 30 days, and I'll go to your page when I want to see you, because 


I don't want to disrupt them.




[: 00:17:24

Yeah, I completely agree. You have to create your own environment. 


[: 00:17:29

Yeah, because otherwise, the other thing is you can get ideas from some of these things. I have got ideas from stories from reading those stupid little articles on Facebook that are just lists of weird anecdotes that people tell, I see these in my ads all the time, like the 30 most shocking stories you'll ever see. 


They're mostly a waste of time, and sometimes I read them, and I'm like, well, that would make a good idea for like a... Real story. 


[: 00:17:48

Yeah, that's a good point. So there's lots of ways to get creativity to from these as long as you have the good have good boundaries and everything. 


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This is your season. Let's show the world. 


One thing I want to touch on. 


You mentioned a few minutes ago that you have to use time blocking and, using your calendar to kind of block out time for writing because otherwise you might end up writing all day and spend the whole day on that when you have other things to do. So how do you manage hyper focus so that you don't spend 100 percent of your time on one project or is it just the time blocking or do you have some other ways that you also manage it? 


[: 00:19:40

Time blocking is the biggest thing and using the pomodoro timer because since you're forced to take that five minute break that's a good time to get it up and be like i'm gonna think about something else I usually try to take a walk every day, which I need to do for my health anyway. So towards the afternoon when my energy starts lagging, it's a good time to take a walk because that's a good way change of environment can change things. 


It all depends on the day because there are some days where I might wake up and be like, this is just gonna be a hyper focused day and that's how it is. And you can tell, when it's like that because if it's going to be like that, it's a time when. I'm like, okay, I have writing to do, and I have this article that's a paid article that I should work on also, and I've got to do this or that for other areas of my life, but I feel that when I don't, that if I don't work on the writing I'm not going to do anything because I'm sitting there thinking I should be doing something else but I really want to write. 


If that's the case I might as well turn on the Pomodoro timer and go with it at least for a little while and see what happens. And it's okay to have a day sometimes like it's an off day where your brain is just undoing this. As long as it's not all the time and try to do things and I try to schedule things so that important things get done in advance because you never know you don't want to wake up on a day that you have bills to pay the bills are due, and your brain is like I'm not cooperating with that today. 


So, you know, I think it's important to try to take advantage of your energy when you have on your focus when you have it, because there are days where it's easier to focus on a variety of things. And on those days, it's always good to be like, okay, I'm having a good focusing day. Let's. Get as much done as possible today because you never know tomorrow I might wake up and be like, I don't want to do anything to this. 


[: 00:21:28

Yeah, I think I have the opposite problem. I tend to not be able to focus on any one thing because I keep every other little thing that's in my life comes in to my brain and I think, Oh, gosh, I have to get this done right now. Or, I just worry about it and it kind of prevents me from working on my writing or something like that. 


And, what I end up having to do is just, I make a little to do list. It's not even a to do list, I think it's from Alan David's book, the Get Things Done book. And you just write down every thought that comes to your mind so that it's on paper and your brain is not worrying about forgetting it. 


And then I think, okay, I'm going to work on my writing. For the next half hour, hour, two hours, and anytime something comes up, I just write it down, and that's the only way I can focus on some days. Hyper focus honestly sounds great to me, although not all the time, but the ability to.




[: 00:22:20

Right, I mean it is a double edged sword because... 


When you're hyper focused, you, block out the whole world and time just passes. And that happens to me at night sometimes. It's like 11 o'clock at night, and I'm like, I have an idea for a scene. Let me just sit down and write this. The next thing I know, it's like 1 30 in the morning. 


[: 00:22:38

Yeah, it is a double. 


The grass is always greener, isn't it?




[: 00:22:41

Yeah, but I do like the idea of the list like you mentioned and I teach people that too because sometimes when people are writing they have an idea for some other type of writing and then they don't get anything finished because they're like Oh, there's this new idea and then you end up with 5, 000 half finished things and nothing goes anywhere. So I recommend something similar for that, which is a leader list where you just write down the idea. Get it out of your head and go back to the idea you were working at, so it's kind of the same concept. 


[: 00:23:11

Yeah, it's almost like when in meditation when they tell you if a thought comes to you to just acknowledge the thought and let it go and, not that I'm a master meditator, I try, but yeah, it, it seems like sometimes you just have to tell your brain, okay, I hear you, but this is the wrong time and we will get to this later. 


[: 00:23:29

Yeah, and we will forget.




[: 00:23:31

And we won't forget. I promise I won't forget, Brain. So, you mentioned, earlier that, it can be, disheartening when you're querying and you're not getting any bites on your query. Did you traditionally publish, Reinventing Hannah? 


[: 00:23:46

I self published Reinventing Hannah. 


I've been working on querying my new book, Heart Failure, and I've gotten a nice pile of rejections so far. So I kind of know both ends, but Reinventing Hannah I self published partially because I wanted complete creative control over it, and I felt given the fact that most of the popular books that are traditionally published follow this formula that I'm not following, I didn't want to risk someone being like, we're only going to publish it if you change it to be like everything else, so I decided to go ahead and self publish it. 


the timing, it came out April: 2020

[: 00:24:44

Yeah, and e book sales went up during COVID. 


[: 00:24:49

Yeah, ebook sales went way up. I would say for the first six months, my sales were pretty good. And then they started dropping off. So I think I needed more of a long term marketing plan than I had. With Heart Failure and I have another manuscript I completed also open secrets that I just finished. 


And so I'm going to see what happens. I might continue to try traditional publishing and write self publish. I haven't decided yet. But I did want to at least try it and, you know, see what was possible. Because I also didn't want to be somebody who was like, I'm afraid to traditionally publish because I don't think that they'll take it, kind of thing. 


Because that's a stigma that people think about self publishing, is they think that people self publish because they're not good enough to traditionally publish. 


[: 00:25:31

Which is not true. 


[: 00:25:34

Right. Unfortunately, self publishing, you are competing with the people who write a first draft and then just throw it up there because they can. 


So there are some books that contribute to that. And now with, ChatGPT and other AI apps, there are people who are just like, I'll just have the, I'll just ask AI to write it for me.




[: 00:25:52

I think, though, that those books will naturally kind of sink to the bottom.




[: 00:25:56

yeah, they do. They sink to the bottom. 


And that's really all about your marketing, because I think some people get afraid when they see things like this. And they're like, Oh, my God, there's so many books out there. There's going to be garbage out there. How am I going to compete? But if your book is good and you market properly, you won't be competing with that. 


[: 00:26:13

Yeah, a book is like any other product. You have to put it in front of the right audience. You have to connect with that right audience. And it has to be a good product. And then there we go. How are you finding the traditional publishing process? Are you enjoying the querying and the, I mean, I know that I got a few rejection letters with my first book and my, when I say a few, I mean a lot, but I also got some really good feedback and really heartening responses too. 


[: 00:26:40

It all depends on. There's always the form letters that are just like, this just was not right for us. That leaves you wondering why? There's also, I've gotten a couple of, thank you so much for sending this to us. I was really interested, but unfortunately it didn't grab me the way I thought it would, but please, if you have something else, feel free to submit again. 


That kind of thing. Those are more heartening. The one thing I will say about traditional publishing as a post self publishing is a process that is much slower, because with self publishing you finish the book, you do all the editing you want to do, you decide if you want to get feedback from others or not, up to you, and when you get it and when you're ready you put it on Amazon. 


So you can theoretically publish within days of deciding that you want to.




[: 00:27:28

Although we don't want to do that. 


[: 00:27:30

Yeah, you want to make sure that it's edited. And it doesn't necessarily have to be professionally edited, because I know a lot of people can't afford, a professional editor. 


The editors I was looking at were, thousands of dollars, so I was like, that's not gonna happen. But, you can decide whether to have, beta readers give you feedback, if you're in a writing group, you can get feedback from other writers there. And so you do want to get feedback from other people, because there are things you're just not gonna see if you're the only one reading it. 


Entering contests is always a good thing. I just got a very lovely rejection with a, with some feedback for a contest where it was like, you pay extra to get a feedback letter in addition to them deciding about the contest. And I'm glad I did because the person gave me some really good feedback on the pages that I submitted. 


Some of it I agreed with, some of it I didn't, but it was obvious that they, took their time and read it and gave me their honest opinion. That's the kind of thing that you want. 


[: 00:28:22

It's really valuable, yeah. 


[: 00:28:23

Yeah. 


[: 00:28:24

And it can be hard to perceive that sometimes. 


[: 00:28:26

Yeah. So. I always, take a day, whenever I get feedback, whether it's from a friend who read it or a professional editor or whoever. 


I'm not going to decide right now because my initial reaction is always, well, that's stupid. I did it this way for a reason. You know, I think it's natural, to be like, well, I know why I did it. So I'm right. But after some time has passed, you can think about it more objectively. 


It's really important not to make rational decisions about other people's feedback. But to get back to traditional publishing, it is slower. Because you have to go through so many people, right? You have to send out queries and get an agent. And once an agent is interested, then they have to send out queries to publishers. 


And get some interest there. And once the publisher says they want to read it, then they might want you to make edits for them to consider it. Or they might have to bring it to their editorial team and get everyone else on board before they can go ahead and publish it. So dealing with all those people takes a lot of time. 


And so, it's not going to be something that's instant, it's not going to be, I sent it in today and it's going to be published next month. It doesn't work that way. 


[: 00:29:31

No, it usually takes about 18 months from signed contract to publish date. And that's assuming that, there's no mergers or acquisitions or layoffs and then you lose your editor at the publisher and have to start over. 


[: 00:29:44

Right. And, sometimes the agents. Quit or they decide that this is not for them after all and start over at the beginning. So it is very difficult traditionally. I think self publishing is difficult in a different way because you have to wear every hat. 


[: 00:29:59

And you have to look at it as a business, so you have to take your emotions out of it. 


[: 00:30:03

Yeah, you have to look at the business and that's not for everyone. Not everyone's an entrepreneur. Not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur and it's not the kind of thing that you want to just jump into and hope for the best because you're just wasting a lot of time and money that way. 


So you want to make sure you know what you're doing and so they're both difficult in different ways but I do understand like some people will be like I don't know how many years I have left in my life. I don't want to wait years to see if I'm going to be published, and so that's a perfectly valid reason. 


And I think having that creative control, because sometimes. The market trends aren't always right. And the editors are, uh, and publishers and agents who are looking at your work and comparing it to what's out there might not have the full picture. You know, there are some times when they're like, I don't think this book would sell. 


And then you self publish it and people are like, wow, that's amazing. 


[: 00:30:53

Yeah. And because they're so slow, they know that they're behind. So I'll give an example like when Twilight came out and Vampire Romance was big for however long, the publishers stopped wanting to take Vampire Romance because they said, Oh, this is going to burn out and it's not a It's going to be, it's not going to sell anymore and Vampire Romance is still selling for self published authors and it goes through shifts where like maybe it goes from Vampire Romance to Werewolf Romance and then back to Vampire Romance so I mean. 


[: 00:31:22

Right. 


[: 00:31:22

You have that opportunity to pivot when you're self publishing, but you have, you know, there's different expertises involved in traditional. 


[: 00:31:31

Right, exactly, and I would say one advantage of the traditional is that if you do sign a contract, you get the advance, you know, they pay you some money. 


In advance of your royalties and that's helpful not just for obviously anytime you get paid is good for your bank




[: 00:31:48

And your creative spirit 


[: 00:31:50

Yes, but also if you're considering the marketing you want to do you're gonna have to do some marketing yourself either way, right? you can't just like depend on the publisher market for you, but if you are getting some money from them up front, then you might be able to put some of that towards marketing and be able to market in different ways that as a self published author, if you're first starting out and you're somebody who mainly is living paycheck to paycheck, or you have a lot of expenses, then you're going to have to save money for all of these things before you can even publish. 


[: 00:32:20

Yeah. Those are excellent points. So you do a lot of writing and I know that you also run a membership. And you just opened up a new Facebook group. So let me talk to you about overwhelm in your business. Especially, like how do you overcome or prevent yourself from getting overwhelmed with all this stuff that you take on every day? 


It's a lot of stuff. 


[: 00:32:40

Right, and there's a lot of stuff and I won't pretend to be perfect at it because I think sometimes when people are like busy and they want to raise the space to the world of let me help you with this. They want to, act like they never experienced this. So I do experience overwhelmed sometimes, but that's why it's really helpful to have a support group, right? 


Because I'm in a couple of paid business memberships that are really helpful. Because if you're in those support groups. 


You could go to your writing group or to your business group or whoever and be like, I'm really feeling overwhelmed and people will help you. And like, sometimes even just saying it can be helpful. 


You can like, just get it out and then you can get on with your day. One of the things I do for Writers Block also works for Overwhelm and that's. So free right about what's going on. So , say I sit down to write. I'm like, I have no idea what should happen in this chapter. I might open a document that Evernote or Google Docs and be like, just free, right? 


Why I'm stuck. And usually by the end of that session, I'll have an idea of what's supposed to happen. And you can do that for overwhelmed too you'll get ideas just by like getting it out on paper. And then, the best thing to do is to try to prevent overwhelm as much as you can, because it's better to not have it in the first place than to have to, deal with it. 


[: 00:33:57

Oh my gosh, preach. Preach. 


[: 00:33:59

So, that's where the calendar really helps because... 


[: 00:34:02

Yeah. 


[: 00:34:03

One of the things I've learned, too, is not to try to over stack every day. When I first started at one of my business groups, they would ask, what are your goals for this week? And I would list like 26 or 30 goals. 


And other people in the group would be like, I'm getting tired just looking at this. And I learned it doesn't really work. It's too much.




[: 00:34:21

That's what I do. 


[: 00:34:21

I try to choose my top three priorities every day because that way it's three goals that I can get done if I get the more done great but I don't have to do 30 things at a time so that's really helpful. 


I think again the calendar because if you look at your calendar you're like okay where can I fit this in and that can be a really good hint that you're taking on too much because if you have a bunch of goals you look at your calendar and you're like I don't have a room anyplace. Then that means




[: 00:34:49

Oh, you're calling me out, Jack. 


[: 00:34:51

That means that something has to change. Then you have to look at your priorities and be like, Okay, which of these are most important? Because I don't have any room for this now. Can I put it off or is there something else I can put off? Because otherwise, the other alternative is to stay up all night and to work through dinner and to work all weekend and then eventually I find I'll have a day where my brain just totally turns off and I don't do anything because I've been doing too much, so. 


[: 00:35:17

Yeah, I mean, and that's happened to me. This is a good reminder for me because I'm certainly the same person who I will put down 20 things that are, I'll call them all priorities. And are they really priorities? No, but I've. Internally want them to be priorities. So I do them and it's a good reminder for me that I need to just pick three and just focus on getting those done. 


Because once you get those three done, your brain is like, good job. You did great. Nice work. And then you feel good about yourself versus if you had gotten that same three done. In one day, but you had a list of 12, your brain is going to tell you that you're awful and, and terrible and, and you failed. And that's just not true.




[: 00:35:58

Yeah, it's totally not true. And I think that's where the problem lies is a lot of times, we wish we could be in 10 places at once. We want to do everything. 


[: 00:36:07

Yeah. 


[: 00:36:08

It doesn't work that way. 


[: 00:36:09

Well, this has been a really lovely conversation, Jack. I would love for you to share. With everybody, one tip that you think is really helpful. 


[: 00:36:20

Okay, one tip. Let me see what my top tip would be. I don't know. I just said it to action. So I think the most important thing is to realize whatever your process is. Is your process and it's okay, even if your brain doesn't work the same way other people's do, like don't compare to how other people do. 


Remember, don't try to run Mac software on a Windows computer or vice versa. Find things that work for you and go with them.




[: 00:36:50

That's excellent. And where can everybody find you online?




[: 00:36:54

Okay, so I am on Facebook. My Facebook username is Coach and Author Jack Ori. I'm also on Twitter, or X I guess it's called these days, Instagram, and Threads as AuthorJack Ori. 


I don't really use most of those that much, but I'm there. So if you want to, so if that's your favorite platform, reach out and say hi there. And as I mentioned earlier, I have a new Facebook group called the Neurodiverse Writers Lab, which is at Facebook slash group slash Neurodiverse Writers Lab, and it is for neurodiverse writers, to get support. 


So like I was talking about before, how important it is to have support. This is a place you can get it where, every Monday I ask people to set their goals, I check in with you, on Friday we celebrate our wins, in between I talk about writing, ask you questions about your writing process, and we just interact, get to know each other, get to support one another's projects, it is a completely free group, I do promote other stuff that's not free in there once in a while, just so you know, but that's not the purpose of the group, it's not a come here so I can sell to you, it's come here, so I can give you support. 


And if you want to do these other things, you can and group members do get discounts on my other services. So this is a bonus. So I just started a week ago and I have 11 people in there. So far. I would love to see more people in there. So. Come check it out, see if it's for you. 


The more writers I can support, the better. I'm really excited about that. And, my website is also authorjackori. com. You can get more information on me there. Contact me there. And check out what I've gone on.




[: 00:38:31

The Facebook group sounds really valuable. So all of y'all neurodiverse writers out there, this is where you want to be for help and support. 


Well, thank you so much for coming to talk with me today, Jack. It was really lovely to have this conversation with you. And I know that everybody's going to find it very valuable. So thank you so much. 


[: 00:38:50

Well, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed talking to you too.




[: 00:38:54

Perfect. Bye bye. 


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